• Pelourinho Square 19, Salvador
     M Pastinha (interview)
     Raimundo das Virgens Natividade (singing)

    2/Jul/1964









    📻 Velhos Mestres

    M Pastinha in 1964!
    < >
    • 01.
      Introduction
      5:34
    • 02.
      Interview
      15:47
    • 03.
      Bahia, nossa Bahia
      7:55
    • 04.
      Tava em casa
      7:21
    • 05.
      Roda de rua
      10:05

    M Pastinha in 1964



    Informação

    • Introduction by Helinä Rautavaara, 1996

      -

      Transcription and translation from Portunhol by Hilton Teimosia Sousa (source), additions and translation to English by Sven Cajueiro

      Helinä Rautavaara:

      [..] In any case, during my first vist [..] Bahia. I started to encounter things, and of course, I was told about Mestre Pastinha - who still at that time was not blind. He had his academy, he ran his academy, sometimes played... I even have a photo, a very very bad one, because it was taken with that 2-dollar camera - but he is played there all right. In his academy, of course. It was fundamentally Angola... the real thing. Angola... And one of the oldest, if not the first in Bahia.

      Of course, capoeira is a very old tradition, it has its heroes during the slavery. Slavery wasn't that long time ago. I have interviews... Interview in the house of Waldemar da Liberdade, who is also a very famous capoeirista. I have an interview with an old man - or was it a woman, I don't remember any more - who was a slave, was born a slave. Oh! So, many things to remember from there in Bahia. These are all lost... They tell me these are lost, that they let all get lost, all, all. And the music too... Influenced by records, by radio and television. There is no more indigenous, traditional folklore. It has all changed, today.

      In any case, they called me to Mestre Pastinha. And of course, Mestre Pastinha, as he ran his academy, he presented me a young guy and I went to him saying that I wanted to record. And he presented me this guy, bahian, tall, strong and handsome, called Raimundo*. Black, black, black. Angola! In any case he presented me, he as a guide, as a person who would teach and guide me, and he even sang to me. He was singing firmly, like everybody there, well according to this tradition.

      And now we will listen to this recording, which is really a classic one, very, very classic. And I even can [..] this musical. Because Raimundo knew how to sing. Later I started to walk with him on the square parties, and sometimes... He had a bit of an african style. For example, when we were going down a hill, he didn't walk beside me, he was walking a little behind. And I remember the police coming to say to me: «You know that this guy is following you?». They wanted to warn me that it was dangerous. And I was laughing: «No, it's my friend...» But as I said on another tape, at that time, during my first visit, 63-64, I didn't have any romances, didn't have crushes. So the book of Jorge Amado was really a novella. Only after the return form Africa to Bahia I started to walk with DiMola. And we were always laughing that only afterwards was I living the happenings of the book of Jorge Amado that he has written years before**.

      In any case [it's] here - later I have interviews with Mestre Pastinha on other tapes. If they fit, I will put them all together here, if not, they'll stay for other tapes. But this is the first recording of capoeira de Angola, 1964.

      *Raimundo das Virgens Natividade
      **Jorge Amado wrote the Tent of Miracles in 1967. It depicts a romance between a brazilian Pedro Archanjo and a finnish girl Kirsi. Helinä Rautavaara was second time in Brazil during 1969–1971.

    • +

      Interview by Helinä Rautavaara, 1964

      Transcription and translation from Portunhol by Hilton Teimosia Sousa (source), additions and translation to English by Sven Cajueiro

      Helina Rautavaara (HR): I'd like you to tell me a little about what year did you start as a capoeirista?
      Mestre Pastinha (MP): Since 1910.
      HR: And what year did you establish this capoeira?
      MP: In 1941.
      HR: Could you please explain me a little more about what capoeira is. I already know, but explain me.
      MP: The explanation I have? About capoeira?
      HR: Yes.
      MP: About its origin?
      HR: Yes, about the origin.
      MP: The origin is african.
      HR: And where did you learn?
      MP: Here in Bahia.
      HR: What year?
      MP: At 10 years old.
      HR: And with whom did you learn? Who taught you?
      MP: An african.
      HR: How is he called?
      MP: He was called Benedito.
      HR: Mestre de angola.
      MP: Angola!
      HR: And... They say that capoeira is a fight, but it is now prohibited as a fight...
      MP: No... It is not prohibited as a fight, no. It is in the innermost part of the man. When it encounters a rival, it manifests itself in an act of fight. Now when we are in the act of happiness, it becomes a dance.
      HR: In your academy, how long has it been in this place? Here in Pelourinho?
      MP: In Pelourinho, since 1952.
      HR: Do you want to tell me anything about your life, something, an anecdote, something about your life as a capoeirista? Did you go to Rio, to São Paulo?
      MP: Rio, São Paulo, Brasília, Porto Alegre...
      HR: And abroad also?
      MP: Not yet. I had an opportunity that I lost, since I had to go to Argentina. But since I received an invitation from São Paulo, it was revoked. To go to São Paulo, I skipped going to Argentina.
      HR: And the boys.. What age do you have to learn capoeira?
      MP: What year?
      HR: What age.
      MP: No, he can learn at any age. You can learn at any age.
      HR: These boys who are here, are workers, are students?
      MP: Yes... They are workers, students, civil servants, shop hands. There's people from everywhere.
      HR: And capoeira is only a pastime.
      MP: Yes.
      HR: And they come here on their free time?. Capoeira doesn't provide for life?
      MP: No.
      HR: But you, what do you do? Do you live off the academy?
      MP: Yes.
      HR: And... What new modifications take place here? How was capoeira before?
      MP: Before?
      HR: Was it the same?
      MP: It was the same. It was the same thing. There are no modifications. The modification is the consideration of one against the other. If the guy has a vocation, it is taken in the act of happiness or party, so we play capoeira with more obedience, with more technique. Now, when it's taken with hate, it is modified also, to become a fight. In the act of happiness, it is to dance. And in the act of hate, you already know how it is: it is for the violence.
      HR: Tell me one thing. You personally don't go to the streets any more [to play capoeira]?
      MP: No, no, no...
      HR: But you present capoeira in Boa Viagem. In what fiests do you present it? In Santa Bárbara. In, in... Conceição...
      MP: In Santo Amaro, Cachoeira.
      HR: Boa Viagem...
      MP: Boa Viagem. I am in all the places. Where I'm invited to go, I go.
      HR: Right.
      MP: We are here ready to attend any occasion, be it whereever. Whereever there is interest, I am also interested to go.
      HR: Where you to think the capoeira tradition is the purest? Here?
      MP: Yes...
      HR: What do you think of Mestre Bimba?
      MP: I have nothing to answer. The purpose is another and I cannot introduce a purpose... Now for this here, I know to answer for it. But about the other... I know that he is a... About Bimba, I cannot say what his purpose is. Because he has his purpose. Only he can say what it is.
      HR: Of course, of course... But do you think... He said that he represents a bahian tradition. Do you think it is bahian?
      MP: He is also bahian. The tradition is the same. From me to him, from him to me, I think there is no modification.
      HR: You mestre represent a more african tradition, angolan. He represents another tradition more...
      MP: Angola! He presented another kind [of tradition]. With the surname of regional. He presents it with the surname of regional. But he is angoleiro, he learned angola.
      HR: He was, he was...
      MP: He is as much angoleiro as am I, here I won't belittle him...
      HR: And others like Waldemar and Caiçara... Are they your students?
      MP: Here between us, I cannot talk about the purpose of others. I can only talk about mine. Because I can only present mine, I cannot present the others.
      HR: No, no, I didn't ask this. I asked only as african tradition.
      MP: It's the same, the tradition is the same. Now they have their different statements. They learned with other mestres. I can't say anything.
      HR: What plans do you have for the future? Do you have any plans to change, to grow it? Do you have a plan for the future?
      MP: It's future is the same. From the evolution of the man. There is only the evolution of the man. But it has to manifest itself in itself. In the same rhythm, you can't go out of it...
      HR: Tell me one thing... What meaning is there when they start to sing and greet like this. A greeting. Does it have some religious meaning?
      MP: It is religious. It comes from the same religion that candomblé. There's batuque, samba. It is from the same package. Now, with a modification, a little different. The manifestation is a little different. But the package is the same, the religion is the same.
      HR: Someone told me that there is a rivalry between candomblé and capoeira...
      MP: There is no rivalry... It's united.
      HR: In some book I read that there is a fight between them. There isn't?
      MP: The capoeirista is the same fetishist. Now they abandom one part for another. We accompany the fetishism. We accompany candomblé. If it weren't like this, we wouldn't go to the candomblé house. Right? But it is from the same package. Now one likes more one purpose than the other.
      HR: Right, right, right...
      MP: One goes more to capoeirism, the other to fetishism.
      HR: The magazine that I promised you, I will send from Finland. Because there isn't one here... From Rio I could send also, since in Rio there's one. I could send some photos so that I could [inaudible].
      MP: You can send. The more, the better...
      HR: Here I don't have, I don't have anything with me, but in Rio I can get one...



    Photo gallery

    • M Pastinha's students
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 1: Pastinha and his students greet 2 de Julho [Bahia's independance day].
      M Gigante with berimbau. Without M Pastinha.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 1: Pastinha and his students greet 2 de Julho [Bahia's independance day].
      M Gigante with berimbau. Without M Pastinha.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 1: Pastinha and his students greet 2 de Julho [Bahia's independance day].
      M Gigante sitting beside the berimbau player. Without M Pastinha.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 1: Pastinha and his students greet 2 de Julho [Bahia's independance day].
      M Gigante sitting beside the berimbau player. Without M Pastinha.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 2: M Pastinha playing (black and white clothes). Big audience.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 2: M Pastinha playing (black and white clothes). Big audience.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 3: M Pastinha playing (white clothes). Big audience.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 3: M Pastinha playing (white clothes). Big audience.
      Largo do Pelourinho 19
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 4: M Pastinha playing (white clothes), M Gigante with berimbau. Big audience. Instrument players in suits.
      Location?
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    • Presentation 4: M Pastinha playing (white clothes), M Gigante with berimbau. Big audience. Instrument players in suits.
      Location?
      Helinä Rautavaara's collection

    Helinä Rautavaara, 1964


    M Pastinha's school location

    Centro Esportivo de Capoeira Angola in Pelourinho



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